Let's start with a little bit of background on me and where I'm coming from:
* I graduated this past May with a degree in computer science from a small liberal arts university (University of Mary Washington).
* Last summer I interned with Mantech, a mid-sized government contractor. When I graduated in May I went to work for them full-time. My time here has been spent mostly coding GUI applications or plugins for commercial apps that are supposed to help the engineers do whatever they do. I've also been working on a 3-dimensional operating environment, but it looks like that project is going to go the way of all good things.
So, with that out of the way, let's talk about where I'm going. Or more accurately, where I'd like to be going.
Like many others here, I want to land a job in the gaming industry. I love games, yadda yadda, we've all heard the same thing out of millions of mouths before. I don't know about you, but a lot of what I hear out of those mouths just isn't practical. I don't want to be like that. I want to be realistic about what my options are and what I'm qualified to do. But I also don't want to sell myself short...
Right now I'm a programmer. I have a four year degree, and while my GPA wasn't the best (2.92 overall, 2.98 major), I'm constantly surprised by how much stronger my programming skills seem to be than my peers'. I've never been great at math or science; I made it through Calculus I and II alright, but just barely made it through Linear Algebra with a C. I think my strength lies on the more creative side of the programming fence--if you can believe that there is such a side. ;) I excel at gathering requirements, coming up with a solution, designing and tweaking the way the user is going to interact with the software, bug testing, bug fixing, coming up with new features and improvements to existing features, prioritizing fixes and features, etc. In school where we didn't have artists at our beck and call, I ended up making my personal and team projects look better than anyone else's... but I'm definitely not an artist (nor would I like to be).
Surfing the forums around here, I found a lot of people mentioning QA, especially as an entry point into the gaming industry. I'm embarrassed to admit I didn't exactly know what they meant by QA without googling it first (my initial thoughts were 'question and answer?'). Quality assurance. Testing. And here's where I start asking a lot of questions, so perk up!
First off, I would like to know what QA encompasses. Is it just typical, mindless testing and recording of bugs? This button doesn't produce the expected results, or there's a graphical glitch here but only if you first hop around on one leg and then hold down two buttons while eating cheese, etc. Or do you also get to give more meaningful feedback, like suggesting improvements?
My next question I'd like to ask without offending anyone who previously or currently works in QA... In my experience, testing is usually a low paying position that is given to non-engineers. Not just in the gaming industry. I don't think testers are usually computer scientists themselves; sometimes they don't even have a degree. How much of this is correct, and how much is not?
Finally, given all of this, should I be trying to land a starter position as a programmer or give the QA route a try? If I'm overqualified to go into QA, I don't want to underachieve. I do know I would enjoy it, and be excellent at it... but would I be taken seriously if I went above and beyond the usual bug reporting and suggested changes be made to improve gameplay, or interface? Programming on the other hand, mileage may vary. There are parts I would enjoy and be good at, and parts that I think would frustrate and elude me. Maybe no more or less than anyone else, but I'm not sure; it seems like a lot of the game programmers I know are much more mathematically inclined than I am.
🎉 Celebrating 25 Years of GameDev.net! 🎉
Not many can claim 25 years on the Internet! Join us in celebrating this milestone. Learn more about our history, and thank you for being a part of our community!
Would QA be the right entry-level position for me, or a waste of my skills?
Traditional QA is very much a matter of just repeatedly banging on buttons until things break, then writing bug reports. In the industry it seems that most QA personnel are not programmers by any stretch of the imagination. While at some studios it is common for testers to give feedback on improvements, it's also common for QA departments to work for publishers rather than actual development studios, which means your feedback capacity will be minimal. Overall it's a brutal position with very high turnover, and in fact fairly little in terms of a solid career path into programming itself, at least from what I've seen.
What you might try is going for a Software Engineer in Test (aka "SDET") position. SDETs are typically given gameplay code and do a lot of QA type work on it, but have access and authority to implement bug fixes. Usually junior SDETs have to consult with more senior staff before being allowed to commit against the main codebase, but getting past that should be trivial if you're actually decent as a programmer. In more modernized shops, SDETs also do things like write and maintain unit tests, and bitch out people who break them. Overall it's a very decent way to get your foot in the door as a programmer as long as you don't mind doing some very tedious work for a while.
Outside of that... gameplay engineers are typically fairly close to entry-level in a lot of places, and you'll have plenty of qualification for that especially with prior experience working for a software company. At the very least I'd say you should apply for as many positions as possible, even if you're concerned you may not meet the requirements; chances are you will be filtered if you don't, and if you make it to an interview, just ask lots of questions about what is expected of you, and see if you feel comfortable with the job. I know a few highly qualified programmers who constantly fret about not being able to measure up for job X/Y/Z, so you're hardly alone on that front. In fact it seems to me that being concerned about that is a good sign; most truly underqualified candidates never even bother to think about whether or not they're any good.
In short: apply for anything that interests you, and rely on the hiring process (especially interviews) to help you select a job you're a good fit for. Remember, hiring isn't just about the company picking you to work for them - it's about you picking a job you can and want to do.
What you might try is going for a Software Engineer in Test (aka "SDET") position. SDETs are typically given gameplay code and do a lot of QA type work on it, but have access and authority to implement bug fixes. Usually junior SDETs have to consult with more senior staff before being allowed to commit against the main codebase, but getting past that should be trivial if you're actually decent as a programmer. In more modernized shops, SDETs also do things like write and maintain unit tests, and bitch out people who break them. Overall it's a very decent way to get your foot in the door as a programmer as long as you don't mind doing some very tedious work for a while.
Outside of that... gameplay engineers are typically fairly close to entry-level in a lot of places, and you'll have plenty of qualification for that especially with prior experience working for a software company. At the very least I'd say you should apply for as many positions as possible, even if you're concerned you may not meet the requirements; chances are you will be filtered if you don't, and if you make it to an interview, just ask lots of questions about what is expected of you, and see if you feel comfortable with the job. I know a few highly qualified programmers who constantly fret about not being able to measure up for job X/Y/Z, so you're hardly alone on that front. In fact it seems to me that being concerned about that is a good sign; most truly underqualified candidates never even bother to think about whether or not they're any good.
In short: apply for anything that interests you, and rely on the hiring process (especially interviews) to help you select a job you're a good fit for. Remember, hiring isn't just about the company picking you to work for them - it's about you picking a job you can and want to do.
If you have a CS degree and genuine programming experience then applying to be a programmer is definitely the more logical route to go. What do you have for a portfolio, though? There are tools programmers, AI programmers, gameplay programmers, graphics programmers, etc. but you need to have a portfolio demonstrating your specialty.
I've worked 3 years doing black box QA work in the network security industry. Not gamedev, so take that into account.
Generally. There's also a fair amount of test case design and documentation in proper QA roles (as opposed to 'tester' roles, which in gamedev tend to be lower paying "play the game and give us feedback or post errors" roles).
Depending on the position, you might over evaluations like 'this area is too hard', 'these instructions are too vague', 'I didn't have much fun here' which often involves suggestions. Though that is likely to be the minority of your time.
In the gamedev industry this is perhaps a bit more common, but in other industries it happens too. 'QA is for programmers who can't program' is a fairly common joke within the QA departments even. Certainly there are some people who are just well suited to QA work and stay there quite some time (and are generally worth their weight in gold). Mostly though, it is a stepping stone for people (like me) to get into programming professionally or for people who're skilled with computers but didn't study programming for whatever reason.
It depends of course. It's hard to tell from one chat your ability, or what your criteria for job hunting are. Personally, it sounds like you might be well disposed towards something like User Interface specialization or maybe even Program/Project management. The latter might have somewhat entry level positions in larger dev houses.
Not to say that Programming or QA are things you don't seem suited for, or should avoid. That's where the majority of foot-in-the-door positions are, and the common advice on the site will still apply for you.
Quote: Original post by mithryanna
First off, I would like to know what QA encompasses. Is it just typical, mindless testing and recording of bugs?
Generally. There's also a fair amount of test case design and documentation in proper QA roles (as opposed to 'tester' roles, which in gamedev tend to be lower paying "play the game and give us feedback or post errors" roles).
Quote:
Or do you also get to give more meaningful feedback, like suggesting improvements?
Depending on the position, you might over evaluations like 'this area is too hard', 'these instructions are too vague', 'I didn't have much fun here' which often involves suggestions. Though that is likely to be the minority of your time.
Quote:
I don't think testers are usually computer scientists themselves; sometimes they don't even have a degree. How much of this is correct, and how much is not?
In the gamedev industry this is perhaps a bit more common, but in other industries it happens too. 'QA is for programmers who can't program' is a fairly common joke within the QA departments even. Certainly there are some people who are just well suited to QA work and stay there quite some time (and are generally worth their weight in gold). Mostly though, it is a stepping stone for people (like me) to get into programming professionally or for people who're skilled with computers but didn't study programming for whatever reason.
Quote:
Finally, given all of this, should I be trying to land a starter position as a programmer or give the QA route a try?
It depends of course. It's hard to tell from one chat your ability, or what your criteria for job hunting are. Personally, it sounds like you might be well disposed towards something like User Interface specialization or maybe even Program/Project management. The latter might have somewhat entry level positions in larger dev houses.
Not to say that Programming or QA are things you don't seem suited for, or should avoid. That's where the majority of foot-in-the-door positions are, and the common advice on the site will still apply for you.
Author
Thanks, guys! Very helpful!
ApochPiQ:
Would you usually find SDET positions on the developer side or as part of the QA department on the publisher side? It sounds like a job I would love...
zer0wolf:
A portfolio is something I'm seriously lacking right now. Most of what I have to show are school projects, or web development efforts. Nothing game-y so far, though that may change in the near future.
If I'm applying specifically for an SDET position, would it be stupid to put on my resume different commercial beta tests I've participated in? Especially since there was no coding involved?
ApochPiQ:
Would you usually find SDET positions on the developer side or as part of the QA department on the publisher side? It sounds like a job I would love...
zer0wolf:
A portfolio is something I'm seriously lacking right now. Most of what I have to show are school projects, or web development efforts. Nothing game-y so far, though that may change in the near future.
If I'm applying specifically for an SDET position, would it be stupid to put on my resume different commercial beta tests I've participated in? Especially since there was no coding involved?
Quote: Original post by mithryanna
Surfing the forums around here, I found a lot of people mentioning QA, especially as an entry point into the gaming industry. I'm embarrassed to admit I didn't exactly know what they meant by QA without googling it first (my initial thoughts were 'question and answer?'). Quality assurance. Testing. And here's where I start asking a lot of questions, so perk up!
First off, I would like to know what QA encompasses.
Scroll up.
Look for the small blue clickable text that says "View Forum FAQ."
Click it.
Read FAQ 5.
Author
Quote: Original post by Telastyn
Personally, it sounds like you might be well disposed towards something like User Interface specialization or maybe even Program/Project management. The latter might have somewhat entry level positions in larger dev houses.
Thanks for your input, Telastyn! The more I hear about QA the less suitable it sounds. But it also seems like there are other options besides programming that I didn't think could be entry-level, like program/project management. As for specializing in UI... it's kind of a funny thing. So far from what I've done at my current job I both love and hate working with GUIs. :p I think most of my bad experiences have been because of the particular GUI I was working with at the time (MFC, CEGUI). I'll probably know better in a month or two, after we switch our 3D project to QT from CEGUI, if this is the case. Interface has always been my favorite part of web development... but then again it's so much easier than in traditional desktop applications!
Program/Project Management is not entry level. If you have an MBA and maybe are a certified SCRUM Master then you could directly apply for an Assistant Producer sort of position at many companies, but that is about it.
In the game industry, Scaleform is getting more and more popular, so knowing a bit of ActionScript can go a long way to helping you get a UI Programmer job.
In the game industry, Scaleform is getting more and more popular, so knowing a bit of ActionScript can go a long way to helping you get a UI Programmer job.
Quote: Original post by mithryanna
Thanks, guys! Very helpful!
ApochPiQ:
Would you usually find SDET positions on the developer side or as part of the QA department on the publisher side? It sounds like a job I would love...
zer0wolf:
A portfolio is something I'm seriously lacking right now. Most of what I have to show are school projects, or web development efforts. Nothing game-y so far, though that may change in the near future.
If I'm applying specifically for an SDET position, would it be stupid to put on my resume different commercial beta tests I've participated in? Especially since there was no coding involved?
SDET jobs usually come from the developer directly.
Your portfolio is your number one asset, so I'd focus on getting that shored up as soon as possible with some stellar examples of your work.
I wouldn't bother listing your beta testing experience unless (A) it was a closed beta, (B) you were specifically commended by someone on the development team and can cite that reference, and/or (C) you can document and prove that you had a major contribution to the process. I've taken part in probably half a dozen open betas of various games over the years, and I wouldn't consider them relevant experience, because I did nothing special to get into the beta and didn't really have any effect on the final product (aside from adding weight to the aggregate statistics gathered automatically, etc.).
Whitebox QA might be helpful. At any rate, make sure you apply at the developer's and not the publisher. It may actually be a bit trickier than it sounds.
For example, I've seen development studios outsource their QA for other development studios in the same brand. This doesn't allow you to go very much indepth and prove your understanding, aka, find sensitive spot based on your actual field of study.
I don't think there's anything such as an overkill CV for a QA job, its just a matter of how the company feels about the QA division as a whole. What credibility it gives them, and what they expect from them. It is an interesting question to ask during an interview (which should score you some points at any rate).
For example, I've seen development studios outsource their QA for other development studios in the same brand. This doesn't allow you to go very much indepth and prove your understanding, aka, find sensitive spot based on your actual field of study.
I don't think there's anything such as an overkill CV for a QA job, its just a matter of how the company feels about the QA division as a whole. What credibility it gives them, and what they expect from them. It is an interesting question to ask during an interview (which should score you some points at any rate).
This topic is closed to new replies.
Advertisement
Popular Topics
Advertisement
